S3 E12: "Emoji-ologist Dr. Jordana Garbati! 🤩🪩"

Brain, syringe, ice cube, fire, microphone, nerd face, cheese wedge, face palm. I'm Jeff Gadsden. Hey there, man raising hand emoji. Do you use emoji everyday or do you keep them all to yourself? Zip a mouth face emoji. 

You must join us on this episode to find out more. I'm Amit Power. And this is Block it like it's hot. What are you doing? Do what? 

Are you gonna change my he's changing my script. Okay. That's real time already. Okay. We're ready to are we gonna are we starting Okay. 

As you can see, Jordana, we get it right every time. I don't care for the way you say your name. I don't like I No. I think you need I don't like the American accent either. Sorry. 

Jordana. Okay, Jordana. Jordana. Again, Jordana. Jordana. 

I thought you guys were professionals. I thought it was gonna run smoothly. Nope. Yeah. You're you're you're Sorry. 

Here we go. Vastly mistaken there. Okay. So, Jeff, we've got to talk about it because I know we've both seen it. Oh, seen what? 

You're the light, the air of our ways? What what are you what are you referring to? No, man. I'm talking about Mission Impossible, the final reckoning. What did you think about it? 

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. That was so good. It was just, like, non I was on the edge of my seat. 

I don't know. I don't wanna do any spoilers here for the for the listeners, but there were there were two scenes In particular. Right? That I was just I was I was tense. I was, like, leaning forward. 

I think I was kicking the the person in front of me. He's back of the chair. They they turned around. Yeah. What'd think of it? 

Man, I loved it too. It it was awesome. I know exactly what scenes you're referring to. It's kind of impressive to think that at 62, Tom Cruise was still doing all of his stunts. Right? 

Is that is that true? Does he really do them? Like, because I Oh, he does. He does. You so the the one on the the thing where his face is gonna that that one. 

The thing? Yeah. That one, that was him for sure. And you know what? He kind of reminds me a little bit of you. 

Haven't you just had a birthday recently? Happy sixtieth birthday, bro. Sixtieth. I did. Thank you. 

And I do all my own stunts. And no, I wasn't 16. Hey. But speaking of birthdays, isn't yours coming up soon? Actually, it is. 

My birthday is tomorrow, actually. And, you know, just for you and our special guest, I postponed our birthday hot tub session just to record this episode. Aw. Thanks, man. Birthday hot tub session. 

So you would typically do that the day before your birthday or just Any any any opportunity any opportunity for, you know, birthday hot tubs, you know, this is the weekend before my actual birthday. So, yeah, we would I would typically be in the hot tub this morning. So the hot tub's still flowing? You're still Dude still doing your thing. You know, this is a regular feature. 

However, as featured in our rap video for how you're gonna block it, we've recently upgraded our tub to a permanent fixture, as opposed to one of those, like, semi permanent inflatable things. This is a hardcore proper thing. So my my Sunday chemical ritual is still a thing. It's just what I wanna hear. Hardcore and hot tub in the same in the same sentence. 

I mean, you know you know I don't mess around. Right? So I you know, we're we're using it regularly for r and r. But speaking of which, you know, I tried to, impress my wife recently. We had a we had an issue with the hot tub, and it broke, and I fixed it myself. 

And Kate, my wife, she asked me, did you did you read the manual when you had to fix it? And I said, no. I just went with the flow. Sorry. Oh, god. 

Sorry. I'm so sorry. I said that was okay. But, you know, on another note, I told my colleagues recently that I was doing awake surgery in the in the hot tub. And they said, wait. 

You you were doing blocks on your patients in the hot tub? And I said, yes. It's all about hydrodissection. Oh, man. I'm so sorry that those were literally terrible, but I do have a confession. 

I did ask ChatGPT to help me with those with those gags, so, I apologize. So I think, dude, I think ChatGPT is leading you astray with these jokes. I think they're they're better better with that. The natural ones, do you think? Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. But speaking of well, I had to do some chores too, like Uh-huh. You know, as is as is natural and expected. But Corey had asked me to clear the table yesterday. 

Uh-huh. And even with a running start, it wasn't even close. Oh god. I didn't clear it. Oh god. 

You know, see the thing is, I totally I knew you were coming up with a joke and I and I and that was Uh-huh. Yeah. That was terrible, man. That was literally terrible. It I I'm kind of feeling this is not like our strongest start to an episode ever. 

But listen, now we've got that up. I thought that was pretty good. You're talking about like a long jump. Right? Just to be sure. 

Is that what I could yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Clear the yeah. You can No. 

No. I'm sorry. That was literally If you have to explain it at this Okay. Well, Now we got that out the way, what are we gonna talk about today? Okay, man. 

Listen. I am delighted to introduce our special guest. Delighted this time. It's not often that you're delighted. This must be very special guest. 

I am seriously delighted, for this guest who knows a lot about things that we probably use daily without thinking too much about. Okay. So this guest, however, has taken her knowledge to the next level. We are joined by doctor Jordana Garbatti who has a PhD in education from University of Western Ontario, an MBA from Wilfrid Laurier University, and a master's of education from Queen's University, my alma mater, and a BA and bachelor of education from York University. She actually has more degrees than you and I have letters behind our name. 

For sure. Yeah. I know. She's I she is literally the most educated person I know. In 2020, Jordana began as an assistant professor at the Institute for the Study of University Pedagogy. 

Jordana teaches courses in academic writing, intercultural communication, and most recently, emoji communication. What? She is yes. Dude, she is the worldwide author one of the worldwide authorities on using emoji as language and communication. And she has done interviews with the, she's been interviewed on CBC, which is like your BBC, but for Canada, and is like a super impressive academic and researcher in this really, really cool area. 

And she also happens to be my sister-in-law. Welcome, Thank you. Thank you. So so happy to be here. I feel like, I need to do some work here to to make up for those those jokes you had at the beginning. 

I'm so sorry. I I I don't know what to say. First of all, welcome, Giordana. Thank you so much for taking the time, out of your busy schedule to join us on the podcast. And, as Jeff said, I don't think I know anybody who has got as many degrees as you. 

That's absolutely incredible. We're we're really grateful, to have you joining us here, so thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me, and, I'm a collector. What can I say? Wow. 

Well, listen. I like I like the letters. Collect and degree do you have enough wall space for all those physical diplomas and and testemers and everything? I I asked for a bigger office to fit them fit them all up there. Well, listen. 

They I think you deserve one. Yeah. For sure. Well, listen. I wanna start with, with something nice and chilled, nice and relaxed to get you into, get you nice and settled. 

So can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Where you're from? What exactly it is that you do? And what is Jeff like at family dinners? Jeff is awesome. 

He's, always trying to get a word in a a very busy Italian family. I could imagine. Sometimes it works. Often, it doesn't. Sorry, Jack. 

Maybe that's why you started the podcast. That's right. Just to be heard. I just need to be heard. You just need to be heard. 

I'm currently assistant professor at the University of Toronto at the Mississauga campus, and I started there about five years ago in the Institute for the Study of University Pedagogy, and we actually call it ISEP for short. And there, I mostly teach academic writing, but a couple years ago, I got on the emoji bandwagon. And, I currently research and teach about emoji communication. That's amazing. I I just I I have loved since the moment that I heard that you were doing this, I've loved this this idea, and it's really so cool that you've turned this into a an academic pursuit. 

Was there a moment when you thought to yourself, like, alright. I'm using it every time I text somebody, but this deserves some serious research and and some professional exploration of the of the topic. Yeah. For sure. I mean, I I used emoji before becoming an emojiologist, which is a a name I I've given myself. 

So is that what you are? I you are an emojiologist? I I call myself an emojiologist. Yes. Urban dictionary does have emojiology as a word, the study of emoji, and I've just taken it one step further. 

I call myself an emojiologist. Own it. The idea actually came about in a class that I was teaching on intercultural communication. So how people communicate across cultures, across genders, across generations. And I was having a conversation with these young students about emoji and miscommunication between emoji that they use and what their family or parents or siblings, etcetera, use. 

And the conversation became really animated, and I pitched the idea to the students. Would you ever take a course on emoji? And they were so excited. That's how it kind of started. I brought it to my department. 

But hold on. So so so you created the course? I mean, did the yeah. The course didn't exist before. So you created a course on emoji. 

You've you've got it. Oh my god. Wow. We're doing cool things at at my institution. So I proposed it. 

I pitched it to my department, my director, and they said go for it. And then I've just been on the emoji train ever since. It's been amazing. It's it's really cool that you have I I I feel in reading about what you've done that you've put not just yourself, but University of Toronto and University of Toronto Mississauga on the map as the place to go to study this. Would that be fair to say? 

Yes. I will take all the credit. You can you can brag. You can you can you can brag a little bit about yourself on this podcast. That's cool. 

I will take all the credit for that, Jeff. Of course, our researchers who are studying emoji from a lot of different disciplines and angles, but when I proposed the course, I had to justify the need for the course and whether or not it already exists somewhere. And to my knowledge, a course that only focused on emoji communication, emoji writing, emoji rhetoric did not exist, not just in Canada, but around the world. There are certainly other people who are interested in emoji, but not not the way I've created it, I feel. That's amazing. 

Hey. Can I ask a point point of clarification? Is it is it wrong to say emojis, or is it is it like, it is is one emoji is a plural of emoji emoji? I was gonna ask the same thing. I was gonna say the same thing. 

You can you can do both, emoji or emojis. Thank god. So if you flip back and forth, go go for it. Because I just don't wanna get it wrong, but we can say emoji and emojis, essentially. For plural. 

Yeah. And we're not we're not testing everybody's grammar in this podcast even though I'm a writing instructor. Because, like yeah. Do have that bumper sticker saying I'm I'm silently correcting your grammar? I I should get one. 

With emoji. You might have the same pet peeve, but, you know, Corrie, as an Italian, hates it when people refer to a singular sandwich that's been pressed as a panini because that's obviously a plural form of Italian language. And so the kids just rile her up. They're like, oh, mom, I wanna go and get a panini today. And it's Oh, so so what are you supposed to say? 

Panino. No way. Yeah. I'll have a panino. World's first. 

Are you telling me that I should be asking for a panino? Mhmm. Yeah. It's a full language lesson here today. Holy. 

Is you a guys are winding me up. I'm supposed to say, can I have a panino? Oh my gosh. And then this is unbelievable. But I listen. 

I know about bruschetta. Oh. That I know. There we go. That I know. 

But penino, wow. Guys, you've heard it here first. That's unbelievable. We've done lots of accents on this show. We've not done Italian yet. 

Yeah. I know. Well, listen. I I feel that it would be the I would be too scared to take on a professor of, writing and language and emoji and and and mess up the accents. I'm not gonna do that. 

Did I cut you off, Jeff, as usual, or were you in the middle of did you finish your paninis? No. I just wanted to ask about the, now I'm getting hungry. Okay. I just wanted to ask the emojis versus emoji. 

Okay. Well, listen. I just wanna ask something because I think it's relevant. We're gonna be talking about emoji in this podcast. Jordana, what is your go to emoji? 

And what does that say about you? Or, I guess, what do you think it says about you? I mean, I use a lot of emoji I can imagine. Emojis. I did before, and I do even more now. 

But my emoji use changes depending on what I'm writing about. Okay. So I don't have, like, a go to all the time favorite emoji. Currently, in the smiley category, I love the smiley with with stars. That's a good one. 

But I also, believe it or not, I'm going camping next weekend. I'm sort of dreading it, but the the the tent emoji is, being used a lot in my in my text messages. I have never used it. Never ever ever use a tent emoji. It's because you probably haven't gone camping, or have you? 

I have. I have, but it's no secret. I'm not a massive fan of camping. But I I just never occurred to me to use it. Well, okay. 

This is gonna get exciting. Jeff, what's your most used emoji? Oh, gosh. I mean, I I use a lot. It's funny how you have the the the the category. 

Right? When I you pull it up, says, like, here are the ones you use a lot. And a lot of it's, you know, the thumbs up or the heart. He gives me a lot of hearts. He gives me a lot of hearts. 

I get a lot of Feel the love. I like the winky emoji. Oh, cheeky. It's interesting how emoji can convey tone, and I was I was talking to Corey about this the other day, like, how we almost feel like I need to add it onto an end of a sentence just to make them understand that I'm not being too serious. Do you find is that a legitimate feeling that I'm having in in in using emoji? 

We feel you, Jeff. You're not alone. A lot of my students who are in their twenties, that came up in discussion in class a lot, that they just felt like they needed to add something to make sure that their message was not misunderstood. The research does support some of that. Right? 

There are different functions of emoji depending on what, the user wants to do with it. So for example, your example was to modify likely the tone of a message, right, to adjust the feeling that someone might have when they receive the text message that you've just sent. Oftentimes, though, emojis are just used to add decoration or a visual element to a piece of writing. So decoration is another function of emoji. So you're not alone, and we see that trend for sure in in this digital written world we've got. 

Because I feel like I don't know, Amit, if you feel the same way, but I'll send a 100 emoji over the course of a workday. And sometimes I'm asking a tech or a a CRNA or a trainee to do something, which is fairly directive. But at that, I don't wanna seem like a jerk or like I'm being too pushy. So I'll put a little smile a little smiley face at the end, which I think changes I think you put a heart after it. No. 

Yeah. No. Just, just, you know, a little smiley face. And I feel like that just changes the whole thing. It's like, hey. 

I'm asking you in a really friendly way now. The other people do you do that? Well, that, Jeff, mimics the the visual that you would have probably shown a smile in a visual conversation or or or face to face conversation, but that you're trying to mimic that in your in your text message. It would be interesting to see what those people think about the emojis that you Yeah. Yeah. 

It's true. Do they no one's ever just emoji me back with one of those red angry faces like, you know, f you, buddy. I'm not I'm not getting your a line set up. Well, I I wanna just follow-up on something because you you dropped, a hint towards this when you started talking mentioning how you started talking to your students about this. How do people interpret emoji in different cultures and genders? 

Are there certain emoji have taken on completely different meanings across different specific subcultures? Have you got any examples of that? Yeah. So some some emoji cross generational differences, cultural differences, like the heart emoji or heart eyes emoji. But there are certainly some that take on different meanings. 

So for example, right now, the watermelon emoji is being used as pro Palestine. Wow. So that instead of flags, people are showing their support or their allegiances with other emoji to represent some ideas. And the reason for that is because the watermelon has the same colors as the Palestinian flag. Seriously. 

Oh, I see. So it's a way to maybe get around some blocks from these social media sites or, you know, less negative attention. That's really interesting. It's very meta. Like, you know, you're just taking the concept of the flag and the colors and just, here's something else that looks like it. 

Yeah. Exactly. And and people generations are adopting emoji to mean different things all the time, and we might not necessarily know what's going on until those that generation reveals themselves. Now you just I I'm gonna interrupt you. This is my you'll notice my special skill or special power in this podcast is the power of interruption, and that's not power, p a w a, my surname. 

But yeah. Listen. You talked about how different generation are using emoji in a way, and we don't understand what it is. There was a show that I know and I know Jeff has watched this because we talked about this, that recently was on Netflix, which was very powerful and essentially told me a lot about a world that I had no idea about. And I'm talking the show I'm talking about is adolescence, and it's talking about using emoji and using pills or and different colored emoji and how you would look at something very innocently but not realize the undertone about this. 

So how on earth did that become a thing? And were you aware aware of that from the outset? Because I certainly wasn't. You've got it. It you know, there it's like a code. 

Right? So people were Right. Exactly. Using that pill emoji as a code representing something completely different than a medicine. Right? 

A pill. Uh-huh. But it's how different groups of people adopt it. And when you're an outsider in that group, you don't know what the thing might mean until, let's say, a show reveals it or something else. Mhmm. 

So right now, for example, some people are using the teapot emoji, not for the actual drink, but as a reference to the phrase spill the tea. Give me the gossip. Give me the lowdown. Give me give me the gossip. Oh, wow. 

Okay. So how does it happen? I think it's a natural evolution of how language evolves, how slang evolves, how, you know, different groups pick up and and adopt these things as their own. Because we've talked in the past, Jeff and I talked about how there's a whole new language that we hadn't heard of before, like skibidi this, Ohio skibidi, Ohio, Riz, whatever that means. I still don't know what that means. 

And so we would never have you know, this language evolved from somewhere, but in the same way, you were talking about people essentially creating a coded language with emoji, which is it's scary for me because, Jeff, that makes me feel even more distant from the youth. I know. Like, if I if I happen to glance at one of our kids' phones and look at the the streams of emojis and sometimes it's like, what what what's bizarre to me is, like, it'll some kid will just reply with 20 of the same emoji in a row, like, the the the the the the which I guess has its own meaning. But but it's hard to interpret some of it. It took me a while to get the skull one. 

Like That's I'm dead. I'm I like that. So funny. Dead. I'm dead from laughter that yeah. 

Okay. That just that was a leap for me. And I I think as soon as the kid's parents know what those emoji mean, they're gonna start change them. Something else. Right? 

Right. I'm guessing that the is does the eggplant slash the aubergine emoji have universal, meaning across many cultures, or do some people just use it in cookery emoji? You mean the vegetable. Right? The vegetable. 

The eggplant. I've only ever used it when I'm when I'm cooking eggplant parm. Right? It's a vegetable. It's an vegetable. 

That's what what else could it be? Okay. Do know what? I'm so happy you clarified that for me. So when I use it, in conversation in future, I'll know that I'm just talking about cooking. 

That's fine. Sorry, Jeff. Again, I interrupted. You could tell your friends, I'm I'm really craving a a nice serving of eggplant tonight. What's that? 

Guys, one one step better is find someone who's maybe an 80 year old or so who's maybe exploring their iPhones and use of emoji and warn them about the emoji eggplant and and see how that conversation goes. I had that once, and it was hilarious. Oh, what? Oh, man. Yeah. 

This is a part public service announcement then for our for our our less tech savvy listeners. Are there are there certain emoji that are more misinterpreted than others? Like, are there some emojis that people get wrong? Yeah. I mean, I think that happens in every every context. 

Right? So you might be using an emoji in your context that makes sense for you and the other doctors, but might not make sense in another context. I did do a bit of research on, you know, miscommunication that often happens across cultures. But I did read something about the hospital emoji, and that could be interpreted as a love hotel, believe it or not. Oh. 

So watch out, doctors. Oh my goodness. Me. Meet you at the love hotel. Bring your eggplants. 

Okay. Now this is reminding me. This is gonna be so enlightening. Okay. So there is one emoji, which I always thought was two hands coming together, and some people said it was praying. 

Some people say thank you. But somebody told me recently, no. That's two people giving each other a high five. What's the real answer? These are tough questions. 

It's all of the above of it. It's all of the above. You know, I I did have this conversation in the class too, and and many of the students said that's the prayer emoji. And that's what, you know, we use as the prayer emoji. But I think there are people maybe in in our generation who would actually use it as a high five. 

Wow. Did you know that, Jeff? I I I've always taken it to me to thanks. But Yeah. Me too. 

But somebody told me it could be a high five. It could be a high giving each other high wow. So it's context dependent maybe. Yeah. This is a great thing about emoji, about language is that we we have the power to use it in the way that we we want. 

Right? So we can make our own meaning. It's like when my mom used to send me lots of LOLs, and she thought that was lots of love. She used to write, at the end of every message, she used to write LOL, and we thought it was lots of love, but actually, it has other meanings. They laugh out loud. 

But anyway, sorry, Jeff. I I usually abbreviate like, where's the fun? Yeah. To to my kids, hey, where's the fun, guys? So let's talk about emoji in medicine, because most of our listeners are in the medical world. 

And so how do you have you seen examples of where emoji have shown up in medicine or medical education? Have you seen any, like, creative or questionable or downright hilarious uses of emoji in medicine? I don't know. I don't know downright hilarious. Okay. 

That, I'm not so sure. But as I said earlier, there's emoji research across every discipline, including medicine. And some of the work that I've read relates to, like, pain communication or pain management communication. So lots of or there are people who've used an emoji scale instead of whatever other scale you guys use, like a number scale Yeah. Yeah. 

To indicate levels of pain. Okay. So we've seen that. You've seen that? Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So with so with pediatric pain scales, right, they often will have a sort of a faces with different different images on them as opposed to a numeric ratio scale. There there is that faces scale that's a a validated instrument that people use. 

I think it's from University of Ottawa, actually. But for kids or people that are that are noncommunicative verbally, they can just point to the right, you know, oh, that's how I feel or that's how I feel. But well, that's interesting. People are using that in in patient interactions to say Yeah. Exactly. 

Indicate how you're feeling. So those smiley emojis, for sure, have been in the area of pain and emotion and feedback and all sorts of things. I was imagining the scale. And, like, is the is the end of that scale the emoji, like, this melting into the floor? Like, the Maybe that could be the add on. 

I I I have to pull up the scale. Yeah. But no emoji have been used, in psychology to work in with emotional readings, in pain. So so can you give us an example of in psychology? So so what emoji what are the range of, emoji that people might use to describe mood, for example? 

It it would be the smiley emoji. So the happy face, the neutral face. That's mostly what I've seen rather than Right. Okay. You know, hospital emoji, the eggplant emoji, things like that. 

That would be like It's different. Right. Okay. But this is variations of a smiley face or the opposite of that. Yeah. 

Between patients and professionals, their communication can be enhanced through the use of these emoji. As Jeff said, it might overcome barriers in communication, sensitivity, language, etcetera. There there seems to be a group of doctors and colleagues, I guess. I don't know all the people out of Boston, I think, who are advocating for the liver and the kidney emoji. When you say advocating, do they exist currently? 

They do not exist currently. And so I've read some editorials and journal articles advocating for these the creation of these two emoji because of related diseases that exist or the need for communication between doctors in liver and kidney issues. Well, that's a great point. I I I like that you brought this up because I feel like there are 60 different faces with various like, there's a slightly frowny face, a slightly more frowny face, and then one frowny face with eyes scrunched and all those kinds of things, which I think I have to sort of scroll through to get to the one I I want. But but there's not an ultrasound emoji. 

Right. So are there are there a limited set of emoji that could be created? Like, is the is the number of emoji fixed and, like, if you create a new one, one gets kicked out of the set? Or Yeah. And, hey, who decides Yeah. 

And who decides? Emoji we can have? Who's who's the emoji king or queen? The emoji, royalty are Are wait. Are are you? 

Are you the emoji queen? I'm the emojiologist. Okay. The the emoji royalty Shit. Okay. 

Are Unicode Consortium. So this is a group of computer scientists, basically. All the people from the tech world have representation on the consortium. So Meta, Google, Microsoft, etcetera. And there's a subcommittee that deals with emoji, and they read proposals that can be made by anyone in the public. 

They read the proposals about new emoji, and they decide whether these are go ahead emoji or they are on pause or they're they're declined. Right? And then they get rolled out across all platforms. You've got it. They get rolled out across all platforms. 

So when you look at their submission guidelines and their evaluation guides they're looking for things like, is this emoji gonna represent many cultures? Can it be used globally? Can this emoji be used in a sequence, like, to form a sentence? Is this emoji already represented in the emoji dictionary, or is it actually creating something new? And will this be used? 

Like, how many search results come up when we insert x word? Right? So they've got their own evaluation criteria. Okay. So maybe ultrasound is low in the list. 

Although, I don't know if you noticed in part of the the the sort of secret promo for this, episode when you did a little, tweet out on x. I was trying to create an emoji that didn't exist, and and I'm we're gonna ask you how you might talk how you might generate that from a group of other emoji. But on one of the smartphone platforms, we're not sponsored by them, so I can't give the name away, You can create your own emoji. So I there's there's something called Genmoji using AI. So I typed in the description and said, could you create an ultrasound emoji? 

And it did, but made this massive thing. And then Jeff and I created our own middle aged men recording podcast emoji, which was amazing. Right? And, actually, Jeff looks just like him. Amazing. 

But back to Jeff's question, though, there's not a finite number. Right now, there's over 3,700 emoji. Oh, wow. We started with just a 100, a couple 100. But the issue that the Unicode Consortium has is that when they create the code behind the emoji, they need to make sure it goes across all platforms. 

So what they they are this code standard for for a lot of the or all the computer stuff that we do, all the different characters we have on our computer beyond emoji. So when you create an emoji on another device that's not one that comes up in your keyboard, technically, it's not the emoji from Unicode Consortium. It it transfers into, like, a JPEG image rather than a coded Right. Right. Emoji. 

If you had your way and were had access to the Unicode people, what would you have made as a what's your dream emoji that doesn't exist? Jeff, I am a member of the Unicode consortium. Unfortunately What on the voting member. A nonvoting member. Oh my gosh. 

I didn't realize that. Cool. But I have attended their meetings, and it's pretty cool. I guess, yeah, you should be as an emojiologist. Right? 

I should be. I am. The emoji that I would love is, an a mocha pot. So back to the whole Italian thing, espresso maker that's on the stovetop. It's called a mocha pot. 

So I would love that, but, actually, Unicode Consortium already reviews that proposal a couple years ago and denied it. Why? Why? They didn't think people would go for it? Don't think there are enough mocha pot users, espresso drinkers. 

People aren't using it as much. This is that thing you you put you put directly on the stove, and you and you put the water in the bottom and then the coffee in the middle bit of the filter, and they go, it all fills up the the bottle. You've got it. You've got it. I I need an emoji for that. 

I def I need one. I think we should put in another request. I'm I'm appealing that decision. What about you guys? Have you ever thought about what emoji you you need besides the ultrasound? 

So that's very work work relevant. It's great. I mean, I I think for me, the biggest one would is ultrasound because it's so sad. I do that all the time. And we just got the, like, the syringe. 

I think I need a hot I need a hot tub emoji. For sure. Is there a top hat emoji? There's probably there is. Is there a top hat? 

There is a top hat. There is a top hat. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll be wearing mine in a couple of weeks. 

So, yeah, I need I need a I will I'll make sure I use that. Like, if you could just if you if the game was describe yourself, try to get someone to to realize it's you using a series of emoji, it would be Amit hot tub, top hat, needle Yeah. Eggplant? No. I think I'd probably give it away. 

If I if I had ultrasound needle top hat and hot tub, then then people would know it's me. And maybe a podcast microphone, that would be me. But you see that a lot of people are putting those emoji in their Twitter, in their social media profiles Yep. To show a little bit more about their identity. I I saw there was another doctor that was part of that thread that we had on x about the show, and they had, like, a rock climber and a surfing person That's right. 

Emoji. Like your hobbies and interests and that sort of thing. Exactly. Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna go off piece for a second because shocker. 

On the subject of using social media, social social media and posting, can you ever overdo emoji? Do you think there's a sweet spot with using the right amount? And is there a point where you can go, oh my gosh, just stop? Because I've seen some people use it, instead of writing text and then a colon and then having they use the emoji, like, for the date and then for the place, like a pin for Luca. And that seems to me like, okay. 

I like that. But I've also seen other people, using a lot of emoji. Do you think there's a sweet spot for how much you can use? Yeah. I mean, you're gonna hear me say this repeatedly. 

Think of the audience, context, and purpose. Right? I'm a writing instructor, so we always think of these things. And it applies to emoji also. Like, is the emoji adding value to your message? 

If so, how so, why, etcetera? So what you were just saying about the calendar and the the pinpoint, etcetera, that's kind of organizing Right. A list of things. So it's sort of serving as, a bulleted list with the the added visual. When you've just got, Jeff, I think you said earlier a whole bunch of emoji that are just all in a row that your kids are doing, that that I've learned is called a keyboard smash perhaps. 

Oh. Bro. Bro. He totally keyboard smashed me. It's a keyboard smash. 

Are they actually putting thought into that message, or is it just they're lazy and they're doing a keyboard smash? Right. Right. Right. I'd like to emphasize a point. 

Do do you need so I've seen some people do the winking I don't know why I have to do impression of the emoji as I'm saying it now. This is so embarrassing. But the winking I love seeing your faces. You do do it again. Oh, do it again. 

Hold up. Yeah. That's an emoji I wanna see. We keep sticking out the tongue thing and see Why you need the tongue stick oh, that one. Yeah. 

Yeah. And so that like, some people do that, like, just once, but then some people will do that, like, three times. Is that just for emphasis? And and and, you know, I I the reason I'm asking is sometimes I find it very difficult to read text when it's overpopulated with emoji. I kinda feel you lose some of the sincerity of the message. 

That was a leading question. That's what was trying to find out from you. But you answered Yeah. That's a good it it could be used for emphasis. I just finished a research project looking at emoji use by luxury brands on Instagram, and some of the stats that we found were for certain kinds of posts, let's say, to emphasize the product, for example, or to feature the product. 

One to three emoji was that sweet spot. Beyond three, let's say, it's diminishing returns in terms of user engagement on on social. So it's context dependent. But yeah. I think that rings true. 

Like, if I see, you know, one winky emoji, nice. Two winky emojis. Hey. That's kinda funny. I I I get what you're doing there. 

Three winky come on, bro. Three? You need three winky emojis? How how many who are you sending all these winky emojis to? No. 

I'm not sending them. I'm seeing them. No. We're we're not sending them. He's talking about what he's what he's seeing out there. 

Right? Trust me. I would not send three winky emojis in a in a row. I'm a one I'm a one emoji. If you can't get my meeting with one, I think I failed. 

Maybe. That's that's my personal that's my personal emoji sort of rule. But no, I think I'm I think I think I know what you're talking about. Like, you see some in some Twitter posts, so I feel like, you know, multiple of the same emoji in a row and you're like, come on, Anyway, but that's that's interesting that you've actually studied this and found where the sweet spot One to threes. Yeah. 

I might I'm gonna adopt that in life. Feels right. And now a word from our sponsor. Sir Jeff, I don't really know how to say this. Ugh. 

Not again. Don't tell me you need a refresher on how to use the nerve stimulator. Very funny. As stimulating as that ancient relic is, you know I left that back in 2009 with my pager? True. 

Okay. So what's going on? So I was gonna say, I miss you, man. Recording the podcast in person was epic. Same here. 

Remember how much fun we had at the ASRA spring meeting with our friends at GE Healthcare? Well, buckle up, buddy, because BlockBox is back. No way. You mean GE Healthcare is teaming up with BlockIt like it's hot again? Yep. 

At this time at the forty second Ezra meeting this September in Oslo. Well, you heard it here first, listeners. Amit and I will be back in the interactive glass black box right in the exhibition area. This time with all new guests, interactive games, good vibes, and a GE venue system in the box so you can try out some of their slickest tools. Come hang out with us, ask questions, join the fun, and maybe even hop on the podcast. 

And knowing GE, I've got a hunch there may be something new in the pipeline. You're such a tease. If you wanna find out more, meet us at the BlockBox at Ezra this September. Can't wait. We'll see you in Oslo. 

And now back to our show. What, Jeff, is it too early to go to the joke break? I know we had we started off with some jokes, but what do you reckon? No. No. 

No. Is it ever too early? Okay. Listen. You you start, Jeff. 

You start. Okay. Well, you know, I have a pirate joke for you today. Is there a parrot emoji? There is a parrot emoji. 

Oh, and there's a pirate flag too. I like the pirate flag one. I've used that. Okay. Here's a pirate joke for you. 

So pirate goes to the dermatologist because he's got some moles on his back. And what do you why you you already do you No. No. But is it sorry. Is it the pirate or the parrot who's gone to the dermatologist? 

Sorry. The the pirate. Okay. The pirate has the The pirate the pirate was just incidental. Mean, to the story. 

The pirate has gone to dermatologist. The pirate has gone Long John Silver is going to the, dermatologist because he has some moles on his back, he wants to get them checked out. Know, the pirate spent a lot of time in the sun with the sailing shirts off and stuff. Uh-huh. Goes there and he he says, Gar, can you take a look at me back? 

And the dermatologist, oh, he's very concerned. You know, I'm glad you're here. This is like you know, takes a look and then he goes, okay. I have some good news for you. These look benign. 

And the pirate goes, I think you ought to check again because I think there'd be 10. Oh my god. Oh, dear. I've listen. I give you extra marks for the accent. 

I give you extra marks for the accent. I think it was very, very good. We know Alright. You know have you got any more for me? No. 

That's it, man. Okay. Well, I think that's yeah. I mean, we clear the table on that. I think that was a really good serving, from from from team Ganston. 

So, you know, it's it's because as we know, Jordana's from Canada, and I realized that, that Canada's known for moose. I don't know what the plural of moose is, but I'm guessing it's still moose. Moose. So I I was recently in Canada. Moose is a mise, yeah, no? 

I was recently in Canada, and I visited Banff National Park to see moose. And I was speaking to a moose expert, and that's where I found out some really important facts. So did you know that there are moose out there that are really well known by everyone? And do you know what we call them? No. 

Fame moose. They're very fame moose. Oh, god. Okay. Oh my god. 

But on the on the the contrary, there are some moose that they're such rare breeds that nobody really knows about them. And as a result, they don't really have a name. And and do you know what we call them? No. Anonymous. 

Oh, god. That wasn't even a groove. That was just like a polite laugh from Jordana. She's like, oh my god. Is that you were gonna I thought you were telling me a true story of your your recent trip to Canada. 

Listen. I I've I've learned these from your brother-in-law. This is your this is brother-in-law's style of joke delivery. He he makes it sound like a story, and then you get invested, and then he just drops his and then boom. Punch line. 

Alright, Janet. Can you rescue this joke break for us? With another joke? Oh, yes. Yeah. 

Guys, I I'm terrible at jokes, so I did some googling. I I stayed away from AI, though. Uh-huh. These are not even a big lead up to these jokes. Okay. 

What what did the triangle say to the circle? Don't know. You're pointless. Oh, I love that. That is brilliant. 

Brilliant. Give us one more. Give us one more. Clever. Geometry? 

Another one. Yeah. Geometry. Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

I've heard that one before. That's good. Very good. And, like, that's a that's a good language one because it's like flies, flies, verb Yeah. Versus noun. 

Love it. And it's yeah. I like that. I'm a bit rusty on my joke telling. No. 

Listen. I I I very much appreciate that. That they were very professorial and very, you know, appropriate. Brilliant. Thank you so much for that. 

Alright, Jeff. Let's get back into it, man. Okay. So listen. I got a question for you. 

There's there's, you know, we work in an interesting field because in medicine because there are there are demands for a high degree of professionalism at times. Well, at most times. And, there's a debate about professionalism and emoji. Can can we be professionals and also include an eye roll emoji in our text? And what is there research about, you know, what's appropriate and can it be done, and is there a way to do it safely? 

Yeah, guys. The rules of language are always evolving and changing. Right? Used to be that emails started with dear so and so forever. Right? 

And now we are Uh-huh. Reducing our use of emails among, in in the workplace and maybe moving towards Teams or Slack. And so the communication changes because it's a different medium for communicating. So, Jeff, back to your point, I would think about who are you speaking to or texting or messaging, and would they get the emoji? So for example, in my context, it's very academic and everyone is very intelligent and really great with their knowledge and their language use and and doing research and all that. 

But we also have academic organizations that are using emoji throughout all their newsletter communication. Right? When when my when I was featured on the CDC, the radio show, I had some very high ups in the institution message me with their favorite emoji. Oh, that's so cool. This is like Yeah. 

Emoji just it crosses a lot of boundaries. So, yes, I think emoji can still be professional. And I would say if you're sending that eye roll emoji, would you do that in real life also? Or would I would I would I make the eye roll face? Right? 

So Yeah. Yeah. Typically. Would you make the eye roll face? Yeah. 

That's a good question. That's a good, like, litmus test for should I be sending this? And will it be understood? Will it be understood? Will it be understood? 

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Are there things that you would never send to your boss? 

Yeah. I mean I'm I'm about to write these down. Well, since everyone in my institution that I am an emojiologist, I think they would be okay with me sending specific sending emoji in general. But I'd probably stick to some of the safer emoji, like some of the smiley, so the yellow faced emoji Yeah. Or emoji that represent a word that I've already said in the sentence like laptop or school or something like this. 

Can I insult someone and then end it with a smiley face emoji and and it makes it okay? I don't I don't think that ever makes it okay, does it? Doesn't make it okay, Jeff. Not okay. You just remind me of something, Jorana. 

Because you said your colleagues expect it of you, do you feel compelled to use an emoji in every single communication that you do? I the pressure the pressure is real. Yeah. You must do. I don't actually feel that pressure, but Okay. 

I I kind of use the emojis more naturally when I think it makes sense or when I know the message is gonna be understood or, the receiver, the person who I'm messaging, I know their level of familiarity, let's say, with emoji. So there's a lot that goes into communication that we might not think about beyond we've got these letters and emoji on our keyboards. Yeah. So if you write an email to anyone as a reflex, would you normally incorporate emoji somewhere into that? Or you're saying only where you thought it had a role? 

I think only where I thought it had a role. It's not my go to. I'd be honest with you. If I write an email now, you most of the time, the emails I'm composing as opposed to sitting at a computer, I'm doing on the go on my smartphone. If ever I incorporate an emoji into an email, it feels slightly different slash uncomfortable for me. 

Whereas if I was sending a text message, I wouldn't think twice about it. If I was writing a professional manuscript, I would never consider it. Can you see there being a time when we use emoji in professional or academic papers to illustrate a point? Is that is that something you think where the future lies? I write about emojis. 

So emoji are in my professional papers. But. Of course. Of course. I mean, what about in the medical world? 

I don't think we're there yet. I don't think we're there. I don't know if we'll ever get there because that genre of writing is so professional, and it's so academic. And the expectations that readers have, the writer needs to meet those. So if you're writing about a new operation or a new way to do some activity in your field and you've got emojis thrown in there without purpose, it's not gonna meet the expectation of the reader. 

Does that make sense? It does. But you know where I've seen emoji used in a really clever way? And in fact, I've done it once myself having been influenced by someone else. People were summing up the evidence of a particular technique for a particular type of surgery, for example, an anesthetic technique for for surgery a or b. 

And they were saying, you know, what's the quality of the evidence? And they'd use a thumbs up or a neutral thumb or a thumbs down or a smi big smiley face or a neutral face. And actually, from a pictorial representation point of view, that's kind of replaced a plus or a minus or a plus slash minus. I I think that was quite useful. So I can see for lectures where you wanna get quick visual representation, I can see that has a role. 

But I'm interested to hear that you don't think it has a role in in medical writing. I think I would agree. Jeff, do you have any thoughts on that? I think if I if I picked up the New England Journal of Medicine and saw emojis scattered throughout the manuscript, it might be a bit off putting at the moment. But but but you know what? 

I like what Jornana said earlier about it's all context dependent, and it's a it's a form of language. So I'm think I'm just thinking maybe maybe there'll come a day when that just makes it easier. I do think that a single emoji can convey so much in certain instances, and so maybe maybe we'll get there. And and you could think about using emoji in your teaching. Right? 

So the thumbs up might make sense in, like, a class context or when you're working with residents and you want feedback on something that you've just instructed them on or something like that. Be cautious of that too. They have to understand if you're using emoji to provide feedback that everyone understands what emoji means what in terms of the feedback. Do you have it sounds like you have it. Some people think the thumbs up is passive aggressive, I think, for some people. 

No. What? Really? You've got some things to keep learning, right, in in terms of these emoji and how they might be, interpreted by the by the crowd out there. So my students I used a lot of emoji in providing them feedback on their written assignments, but I also made sure to use a lot of written text when I was giving them feedback. 

And I said, oh, the thumbs up. I was trying to to use it. What did you all think? And they were like, no, doctor Garbati. It doesn't make sense because you gave us a thumbs up, but maybe 80% is not a thumbs up in our opinion. 

It's still Oh. You need to do more work, so don't give us the thumbs up because it doesn't mean What's better than a thumbs up? Exactly. I mean, so thumbs up is not the top. Do you think you know, is is that okay or or or what am I and I think I'm trying to work out what the wrong The okay symbol? 

Yeah. Right. So with my students, what I think I'll do in the future is we work together to make sure we understand what each emoji might mean in the feedback so that we have a common understanding. So this is what I think you guys could do in your medical field also when you're working with residents or staff or other people who you might be texting or using Slack messages or or whatever to make sure you get what's going on. Yeah. 

Like, when I send you the eye roll emoji, it means I think you're a dumbass. Oh, jeez. I feel sorry for your team, Jeff. Now every time Jeff sends me a thumbs up, I'm gonna think he's being passive aggressive. I'm gonna have to think twice about this. 

This has really made me think. Have you got any examples of when emojis gone wrong in a professional setting? So, you know, the thumbs up is one where potentially, there was a misunderstanding. But are you aware of any examples where people have used emoji in it's in a professional setting and it's completely gone wrong? Has that been studied? 

Do you do you guys follow American politics news? Oh, yes. I'm it's hard not to, where I live. Yeah. It's hard so so I try to avoid it. 

But when politicians are using emoji, when they're launching attacks in Yemen, my ears and eyes perk up. So I don't know if you saw that come up about in the news. No. A couple weeks ago or maybe a couple months ago now, US official security team was using emoji in their chats in reference to bombing in Yemen, and this made major news at least here Yeah. That, you know, should these politicians be communicating, first of all, in chat messages. 

And second, they're using, like, the fist bump emoji, the fire emoji to say, yes. Let's attack. So Wow. I think that's a gone wrong setting. And anything that you can put in a message, if it's made public, make sure you can stand behind what you've said. 

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Watch out for those eye rolls, Jeff. 

That's a really good that's a really good point, isn't it? It's like there are parenting advice to the kids. Like, would you want me reading this? Would you want your teacher reading this? Would you want your grandmother reading this? 

Do you think back to the medical emoji. Do you think the poop emoji is highly used by gastroenterologists? I bet you it is. Bet you it is. Like Like, colonoscopies? 

Yeah. Yeah. The poop emoji, I bet you, the rise, there's probably a correlation. Somewhere, the following tax exchanges happened. Why did your colonoscopy canceled? 

Oh god. Answer, just poop emoji. You know, like Oh, there's too much poop? Yeah. Something like that. 

I love talking to doctors where, we can talk about the poop emoji for, like, minutes. Do you find that just getting back to communication and text, do you find I I recently became aware of the fact that if you put a period at the end of a sentence in a text, it it communicates, like, displeasure or abruptness or almost passive aggressiveness. Do you guys feel the same? A a single a single period? Oh, just one period? 

Not even get into ellipses, man, because I use ellipses all the time. And just to I don't know. I feel compelled to. I don't know why. I just I feel like emails, texts, everything, it's like I wanna keep keep the conversation open. 

Maybe it's like a way to sort of, like, have it end with, a bit of a maybe. But the period, I I I was putting periods in my text, and people were like, why are you yelling at me? It's a generational thing. You're you're showing your age, Jeff. You know, your sixtieth birthday. 

Is that what I heard earlier? Yeah. That's generation. That's definitely a generational thing. Yeah. 

Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Okay. I'm yelling all the time. 

Now listen, you've kind of, sort of answered this question already, but do you think there's a medical specialty that, needs its own set of emojis the most? So, you know, we talked about, the liver for our gastroenterologists or the kidney for our renal physicians. Have you got any others that you think that, you know, medical specialties could do with their own emojis? Is there anything that's that springs to mind for you? I'm not I'm not that kind of doctor. 

I know you kind of doctor. I mean, I think there are already a lot of emojis that exist already. Right? The stethoscope Yeah. Stethoscope. 

Exists, the syringe, the pill. Yeah. The poop, obviously, that that might be a popular one. And the brain exists. Yeah. 

That's right. Yeah. The brain, the heart. What organs are missing? Right? 

What organs are missing? Is there there's chest X-ray one, I think. Right? There's a chest x-ray one. I think these people from Boston, these doctors from Boston also want to have crutches, a cast leg, things like this. 

Yeah. So I would go back to, like Oh, there's a bone there's a bone one for sure. There's bone and a skull, of course. Yeah. Yeah. 

But go back to what what do you guys need? I don't know what you need. We need an ultrasound probe. We need an ultrasound probe, I think. Yeah. 

Do you know I was on call yesterday, and we run typically four to five rooms on a Saturday day, throughout the day. And so at the beginning of the morning, we all get together in the front desk and say, okay. Well, we got, this case going in this room. Who which CRNA wants to do that room? And then so that gets often communicated via text as the day goes on. 

So someone said, what's coming up next in OR one? And someone responded simply with the bone emoji and a hammer emoji. So indicating orthopedic surgery. Yeah. Which I thought was kinda kinda clever, but so I guess we'll probably see more and more of that. 

If if you're really wanting the ultrasound emoji, we gotta put a proposal in. Right? Justify the need. I think this is a great idea. If only we knew someone who is part of the Unicode consortium. 

If only. Alright. We're gonna get this done, listeners. If you had to give some advice to our listeners who are mostly anesthesiologists, emergency medicine, critical care people, and wanna use emoji more effectively, what would you, doctor Durdhana Gobadi, emojiologists, tell them? Yeah. 

I would say I would say use them, proceed, but proceed maybe with caution. Consider audience, context, purpose. So this could be related to patient doctor communication as well as doctor doctor communication. So consider why you're using them. Will the audience, the person you're writing to understand? 

Is the context appropriate? Things like this. But I would say, sure. Sure. Go ahead. 

And and try to make those sentences. I think that is neat when you just said the, the leg and the hammer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Exactly. I think that's really clever. That person created a sentence, like a sequence. And I think if you're able to experiment, that that is a neat way to do it. And there's gonna be, like, a whole grammar of emoji use, I'm sure. 

Right? That we gotta make sure we learn learn this new language, which is incredible. You've got it. Yeah. Well, listen. 

Where do you think this emoji research is heading now in the future? I mean, what are the questions that you're most excited about answering? And tell us what we need to look forward to. Yeah. Great question. 

I think there are so many possibilities with emoji research, because emoji cross across all disciplines. Right? So we talked about language and grammar and linguistics. So, certainly, there's, more opportunity there to look at how people are using emoji in their day to day communication, whether that's text messages or in the workplace. Right. 

Uh-huh. All of that kind of day to day interaction with language, that's a cool area. I'm also really interested in how people are using emoji in business. So I just finished a project looking at emoji used by luxury fashion brands on their social media to see how are they representing their brand and interacting with their audiences through their use of emoji. Wow. 

Okay. That's so cool. Very cool. How wait. How are they? 

How are they doing that? Well, there's one company that stands out actually in if we look at the fashion sector, luxury fashion. Are you allowed to say are you allowed to say the name? Do you have a nondisclosure agreement with this company? No. 

Because I wasn't paid by any organization to do this. Tell us. Tell us. Tell us. We need to know. 

So out if you're curious, out of the top 13 fashion brands, brands like Dior, Prada, Hermes, Witong, etcetera, Hermes actually stands out as a company that is really maximizing their use of emoji in their Instagram. Oh. Really? Yeah. Okay. 

This episode brought to you by Hermes. That's the dream. Can you imagine? That would be amazing. I want one of those belts. 

Of course, you do. Of course, you do. Imitation belt. Sorry. We're going off piece. 

Okay. So how so why are MAs so good? So they they are just responding to and looking at what's going on in day to day interaction and what their customer base is doing and using, and emojis is one of them. So it's a way that they're interacting with their customers in an online format. So it's really kind of playful and representing their brand with the emojis that they use, like the orange heart and the horse emoji. 

So so all that, like, business communication and marketing Yeah. Super fascinating. Interesting. I'm also about to you know, I know that where research is going in with emojis, but I'm personally also interested in, how I can collaborate with other people in other disciplines. So for example, I'm starting a project, very shortly with a biologist at my university, and we're gonna look at birds and the bird emojis that people are using from, like, birding societies, bird watching societies. 

Birding societies. Okay. Bird birding bird so so birding societies, I e, groups of people that get together. I love I like to spot birds or go bird watching. The bird watchers. 

So someone will say like, oh, hey, dude. Check it out. There's a and then parrot emoji kind of thing. You've got it. Oh, so there'll be, like, binocular bird. 

Oh, but yeah. Yes. How many different how many different birds are there? I think there's there must be about a dozen, maybe ten ten or so. 10 different bird emoji. 

There are a lot of different birds, and it sounds like YouTube YouTube might be interested in birding. You know a lot about Well, it depends what kind of birding you're talking about. I think there's a few. I've been seeing I've been seeing a lot of things on my Insta feed about, like, hobbies that you you take up when you get to the a certain age, like, you know, 50. And Uh-huh. 

Birding is is, like, consistently on that list. I'm feeling very uncomfortable with the amount of times we're saying birding birding. I'd be lying to you if I told you I did not have an app on my phone that can identify bird calls. So Right. Anyway I might need to do some case studies just on, you know, Jeff and Amit's social media to see how many bird emojis they're using. 

Dude, check it out. Seagull. Yeah. Oh, I'm gonna check because they're a seagull. Yeah. 

Okay. Cool. So birding is is birding, bird watching societies and their use of emoji, and there there's research happening in that area. Well, we're gonna do it, and we're we're combining, you know, my expertise in language use in writing and communication in emojis as well as my colleague who's a biologist, and her specialty area is birds. So Wow. 

I don't know what we're gonna learn. Because I can imagine if you're on a bird hunt, that the communications are flying fast and furious, and you you don't have time to type in, you know, peregrine falcon. You just wanted to, like, hit one key. Right? So Simple. 

Yeah. Well, listen. This has been amazing, Jordana. I wanted to ask you one more question, which is if you could sum up this episode in just three emojis, what would they be? Oh, only three. 

You're you're putting limits on me. Well, I'm gonna start with the brain emoji because we're we're using our brains here as we're having this podcast conversation. Uh-huh. Yeah. I'm gonna use the stethoscope emoji because I've never done a medical related podcast before. 

Yep. So I've got the stethoscope to represent your field. Nice. Nice. And, of course, this has been such a fun conversation. 

So disco ball it is. Disco ball. Oh. I didn't even was it I didn't even know if I knew that was an emoji. Gotta love it, that's me. 

Start using it. It's super fun. From now on. Is it is it one of the new ones? No. 

It's been around. It's been around. Oh, see. I've missed this. New ones are coming out. 

They've just released the the next edition. I think there's an Apple core. There's, like, a cloud dizzy thing. I still don't understand. Why would you want an Apple core emoji? 

Why wouldn't you? I mean, I've just, like, finished my I mean, wow. I mean, this is we gotta think about ways to use an apple core and a disco ball in the same conversation. Oh. That's that's a challenge. 

Good challenge. Awesome. Well, Jordana, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. This has been, so much fun. It's really been fun. 

Disco ball. Yeah. Thank you both so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. And we're gonna put links to your writing center and to your research on the show notes. 

So people, if you're interested in hearing more about what doctor Garbati is doing in the world of emojis, you can go there. Our chaff levels our chaff levels are gonna be, well, my chaff levels are super high. I've learned so much, and you've given me a lot of guidance, a lot of things to be aware of. I'm I'm gonna be listening to this episode when it comes out because I've forgotten some of the stuff. I need to write it down. 

So we're really, really grateful to have had you. You didn't quite give us the any juice on Jeff, but don't worry. I'll get some I'll get some juice out of you afterwards. But thank you so much for joining us and educating us into the wonderful world of emoji. We're very, very grateful. 

Emojicating us. Oh. Oh. There's a new word. Emojicator. 

You heard it here first, folks. Good one. Please like and subscribe to other podcasts from all your usual podcast providers. Please give us a rating and let us know what you wanna hear next. I would love it if people could get on social, Amit, and give us some emoji sequences. 

Right? Like That'd be brilliant. What are the best emoji sequences that you have used in your professional communications and stuff, like the the bone leg hammer thing? That'd be great. Yeah. 

So you can follow us on all the usual places. That's right. We have Twitter or x at at block it underscore hot underscore pod or bluesky@atbilihatbsky.social. YouTube at block it like it's hot. And Jeff, what else do we have? 

We have Insta, it like it's hot with underscores. Don't forget our hashtag block it like it's hot or hashtag b I l I h. And, yeah, please get involved in the conversations online. Till the next episode. We hope you all block it like it's hot.